Online Bigots?

[carthage]

Those Gay-mers get the short end of the stick it seems...

World of Warcraft Discriminating Against Gays?!?!? (http://www.forumplanet.com/gamespy/topic.asp?fid=1422&tid=1832156)

[McTucket]

i actually read halfway through that shit and stopped.


what the fuck is the big deal?


people cannot always have the cake and eat it too.


their lives are not ruined just because someone is advertising their special guild, or someone says "this is gay"


people need to get lives and stop playing their games so fucking much.

[JimbobSS]

I think the bigger problem is that they are advertising themselves as a glbt clan.....whether it be friendly or not the recruitment still stated glbt friendly clan......its like if I were to (not like anybody would even consider it to be offensive) advertise my guild as a Straight guild, or a Chinese guild or whathaveyou, they shouldn't be noting on specifics, if they get someone in their clan they don't want in they can just dismiss them, no big deal.

That bitch is just using the glbt as a mother fucking excuse, in the same way preachers use god.

[McTucket]

God.

or liberals use liberal...ism...

[carthage]

I guess the thing I can't wrap my head around, is that sexual orientation has nothing to do with gaming. I suppose if you named your clan the gay pink dorothies of oz or something, you might expect some flak.
I got three paragraphs into the article and had to look up glbt cause I didn't know what it meant. Advertising as glbt friendly just invites people who already have an opinion on the subject matter to comment.
Might as well start a group called the leftist abortionists and incite a similar reaction.

[McTucket]

exactly.


ive gotten a few comments on my monk, ankle biter ftw....

nothing to harsh.. mostly laughs.

[Sckoarn]

Same shit as the Gay paraid (sp) in LA. Why do you need to have a special event for a sexual oriantation exposa. Just confirms for me that most of those people that would participate are sick or fucking stupid.

Sorry if this offends, but I have the right to my opinion. If you need to have something special done to make your sexual activities leagal, as in Gay rights, there is a problem. If you need to form some special group which is publicly advertized for your sexual group, you need help, specialy if it is in a game like that. Is there not Chat lines and web sites that they can meet each other on? Why does the rest of the public, the straights, have to be legislated to accept them? I know one thing for sure, the acceptance of Gayism and its legal status, will be a facter in the down fall of the west. The activity is not normal, and has brought disease and strife to the general population. Why is it tolorated??

As for the artical, it is a no brainer. It specifically states in the users contract, which you agree to each time you play the game.

[McTucket]

what you just said is basically implying being straight is normal, and if you are gay, then its abnormal.

im not going to get involved in this matter, id just like to point that out.

[animos]

different = picked on

proud to be different = I want attention

animus = who gives a shit about your sex life losers, keep it to yourself

[Sammie]

i love to see straight guys who are offended by gays. that makes them easy targets to pick on.
there is nothing better than making some homophob question his own sexuality

gay guys ftw!!

[Thunder]

Or there are those of us who really don't care either way but refuse to condone it. It has nothing to do with my "sexual security" and everything to do with my beliefs.

[Sammie]

beliefs are relative. (truths are not relative)

Are you Omnipitent?

Believes are fine but when you make a judgement about another person b/c of your beliefs you are saying you hold the great power of truth while anothers persons beliefs are inferior to your own.
It seems a bit pompous esp about matters that dont even concern you or your life style.

who cares who someone else is screwing? its no one's concern but their own. It doesnt require you to condone it. Its really, no one else's business but the people involved.


Its the assertion that you hold some ultimate truth
that kind of confidence is rooted in pride, which i dont think
is a good representative of true christ teachings

so you choose not to be gay. thats fine. but to tell others they are deviant is an display of pride, more than beliefs.

I dont think you have any animocity towards gays. I think I know you better than that but to be annoyed by a generaly oppressed group of individuals speaking out, is still an advocacy for repression.

Gays have had to make a spectacle of themselves to demand the same basic rights that other's have, just like the women's rights movement and the civil rights movement.

Give gays the same basic human rights and i doubt you will have the level of gay pride displays to shock the christian right

they are trying to shock to get a reaction in order to obtain rights that they ought to already have

this so called negative attention is better than no attention at all.

how many people wanted the "negros" to stfu with all their black pride and equal rights preaching??


EVOLVE!!!

**truth is not relative, beliefs are

[JimbobSS]

Damn, I wish they would give us straight single guys the same benefits as they do married people. where are my rights damnit?

[Sammie]

lol

ok just playing devils advocate and ranting but

what do you mean?
what benefits are married people getting that you are not?
besides insurance coverage for a significant other and thats a big thing that gays are figthing for. its one of the main reasons they want to be able to marry. only married couples get those rights in most insurance contracts. And in general a "lawful" marriage allows someone's partner to act on their behalf by the very definitiions of the laws written and how they still stand today such as property rights, legal rights recognized by the courts when contested. Etc etc etc


your not getting screwed in taxes by being single... bush actually helped single people on that issue from a tax stand point

until bush increased the standard deduction for married couples, married couples actually paid a marriage penalty. b/c the joint standard deduction was not equal to the 2 seperate single deductions. Therefore, it was cheaper to file seperate in most cases.

youre not really oppressed as a single hetro white male


althu we are all wage slaves oppressed by an authoritarian system:
Politically, ecomonically , socially and psychologically

We are all getting screwed. some people more than others. IT s a level of penetration

ha!

bend over red rover :cool:

[ioScream]

Same shit as the Gay paraid (sp) in LA. Why do you need to have a special event for a sexual oriantation exposa. Just confirms for me that most of those people that would participate are sick or fucking stupid.

Sorry if this offends, but I have the right to my opinion. If you need to have something special done to make your sexual activities leagal, as in Gay rights, there is a problem. If you need to form some special group which is publicly advertized for your sexual group, you need help, specialy if it is in a game like that. Is there not Chat lines and web sites that they can meet each other on? Why does the rest of the public, the straights, have to be legislated to accept them? I know one thing for sure, the acceptance of Gayism and its legal status, will be a facter in the down fall of the west. The activity is not normal, and has brought disease and strife to the general population. Why is it tolorated??

As for the artical, it is a no brainer. It specifically states in the users contract, which you agree to each time you play the game.

The reason why they have parades and such events is to make people aware of their presence, and that they need to be represented and accounted for, including in the legislature.. the "african americans" (and I used quotes because as long as I'm white, they're black..) did the same thing, and for good fucking reason. Now, dont get me wrong, I'm not comparing the severity of the situation, but only the parallels. Events of that nature have been the most effective way of getting heard, so why not?

And what the fuck, how are gay people spreading any more disease than straight people.. it's the same fucking diseases with a different means of spreading, and only by a few degrees. There are a lot more straight people out here fucking everything that moves without regard than there is even sexually active gay people.. period.

Why is such bigotry tolerated? What's not normal is the fact that straight people in America who have these high and mighty veiws on homosexuality are the same motherfuckers that add to our ever increasing divorce rate.. don't let the gays be recognized as a married couple, but let the straight people have 30 fucking failed marriages and dysfunctional families.. that's fine.

And the acceptance of "Gayism" is going to be the downfall of the west??!! What the fuck. Homosexuality has been around for a long fucking time, and it seems we are still here.. the downfall of the west and the east, for that matter, is hate..

but whatever.. you are entitled to your opinion. that is mine.

[HHBizzle]

[QUOTE=Sckoarn].........have to be legislated to accept them? I know one thing for sure, the acceptance of Gayism and its legal status, will be a facter in the down fall of the west. The activity is not normal, and has brought disease and strife to the general population. Why is it tolorated??......QUOTE]


wow
double wow

[McTucket]

what, everyone has opinions.

[Sckoarn]

You know who it was that started the AIDs epidemic? .......?

Man kind is but an intellegent mamal on this planet. Most speicies have, what I call, a normal erge to procreate. Or how did they become a speices? So looking from a higher view, injection of a deadly deases into that speices because of the habbits of some, is not good.

I guess Im kind of a servival of the fittest. I am sure my opinion shared by many, but they would not speek out, it is not fationable. What is good and What is not is only a matter of what time you are living in. Yes gayism has been around for ever. And I am sure it is in all cultures. But just of late has it been something to be proud of.

This post has been here for ever, not sure why all of a sudden there are posts, mostly quoting me. What ever, is my opinion, and if you guna hate me for it, .... What ever.

[HHBizzle]

You know who it was that started the AIDs epidemic? .......?

Man kind is but an intellegent mamal on this planet. Most speicies have, what I call, a normal erge to procreate. Or how did they become a speices? So looking from a higher view, injection of a deadly deases into that speices because of the habbits of some, is not good.

I guess Im kind of a servival of the fittest. I am sure my opinion shared by many, but they would not speek out, it is not fationable. What is good and What is not is only a matter of what time you are living in. Yes gayism has been around for ever. And I am sure it is in all cultures. But just of late has it been something to be proud of.

This post has been here for ever, not sure why all of a sudden there are posts, mostly quoting me. What ever, is my opinion, and if you guna hate me for it, .... What ever.


http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/jasons_smilie/!blank.gif

[ioScream]

You know who it was that started the AIDs epidemic? .......?

Man kind is but an intellegent mamal on this planet. Most speicies have, what I call, a normal erge to procreate. Or how did they become a speices? So looking from a higher view, injection of a deadly deases into that speices because of the habbits of some, is not good.

I guess Im kind of a servival of the fittest. I am sure my opinion shared by many, but they would not speek out, it is not fationable. What is good and What is not is only a matter of what time you are living in. Yes gayism has been around for ever. And I am sure it is in all cultures. But just of late has it been something to be proud of.
This post has been here for ever, not sure why all of a sudden there are posts, mostly quoting me. What ever, is my opinion, and if you guna hate me for it, .... What ever.

Well, the origin of AIDs is only a speculation, but still most scientists agree that it originated in monkeys from Africa and mutated to something that can affect humans. So, who really knows how it made that jump from monkies to humans. It seems acceptable to point at the gay community for it, because, and I could be wrong I was very young, the 80's and early 90's spent a lot of time doing it. True, it affected a lot of the gay community, but Africa accounts for about 2/3's of the infection.. I think it has less to do with gay then you might think.. but again.. speculation.

Survival of the fittest.. hmm.. well, obviously gays can not procreate (naturally), but I believe that traditional intercourse may not be the way of the future.. but that of course is something that no one will know until then... so you really can't say they won't be "the fittest"..

As far as it being something to be proud of.. why not? You see, I find it hard to believe that someone would CHOOSE to be gay.. seems like a bit of a pain in the ass (litterally, and figuratively) to choose such a path, because it still, obviously, isn't easily accepted. I can see how someone flaunting it can be annoying, but I don't think parades and such are neccessarily just to flaunt it. Please don't base your opinions on the gays in LA.. everyone knows that place is fucked up.. completely. I don't base my opinions of someone because of their sexual preferences, so it's not something I NEED to know.. I'm sure you are refering to a lot of the "just Jacks" (refering to the guy from Will and Grace).. those guys are annoying, but humorous..


I just saw this post for the first time last night, and I thought it was a topic I would like to debate a little. I don't hate you for you opinion.. it's nothing but love baby. :cool:

[McTucket]

As far as it being something to be proud of.. why not? You see, I find it hard to believe that someone would CHOOSE to be gay.. seems like a bit of a pain in the ass (litterally, and figuratively) to choose such a path, because it still, obviously, isn't easily accepted.



i wouldnt know because im not gay, so i could not have just said what you stated there. only the homosexuals of the world could answer that.

whether we choose, or we're born that way, whatever crap they come up with.

the human mind is very intelligent, people choose to do things every day that others would deem outrageous or unbelievable, whatever.

you dont think its possible for a guy or girl to think to themselves "a lot more people are gay than ever before. i think its cool. i want to be gay."

if you're a female and you engage in homosexual acts, its almost socially acceptable.

if you're a male, on the other hand, its not.

[ioScream]

i wouldnt know because im not gay, so i could not have just said what you stated there. only the homosexuals of the world could answer that.

whether we choose, or we're born that way, whatever crap they come up with.

the human mind is very intelligent, people choose to do things every day that others would deem outrageous or unbelievable, whatever.

you dont think its possible for a guy or girl to think to themselves "a lot more people are gay than ever before. i think its cool. i want to be gay."

if you're a female and you engage in homosexual acts, its almost socially acceptable.

if you're a male, on the other hand, its not.

Touche. :biggrin:

I do believe there are people who are stupid fucking trendy peices of shit, but think about the group of people who's parents disowned them for it... and yes.. we cannot speak on this in anything more than in opinions.. and i did use the word "believe"... are you saying that everyone should be straight out of neccessity?

As far as the Bi female population.. it's because these women are fucking attention seeking whores that should be eliminated.. but it's just SOOO fun to watch... and that is a product of the "MTV" culture (just using MTV as a scapegoat) , they shouldnt be reflected upon the gay community, because their actions arent usually out of "love" but out of the need for attention...

[McTucket]

its kind of like the emo scene, and i know you know what im talking about.

its cool to be emo.


its cool to be gay?


it could fit.


bottom line, no matter my beliefs ( i dont agree with homosexuality)

i treat "those people" (hah) the same way i would my straight friends.

[ioScream]

haha.. emo.. tsk tsk.. emo IS gay :wink:

bottom line, no matter my beliefs ( i dont agree with homosexuality)

i treat "those people" (hah) the same way i would my straight friends.

and that's all anyone could EVER ask.. though, i still think there should be equal rights.. i mean, if we let women out of the kitchen, why cant we let gays have insurance.. geezz... rule of thumb ftw :-P ... THAT WAS A JOKE!!!!!! sorry. :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

[Sammie]

gays caused/spread aids as if it wouldnt have happened without gays in the equation

that is laughable

there is a very credible argument that aids could have possibly been introduced through polio vacines that were tested on people in africa.

but whatever, buy the hype that gays are bringing down society

like we need to procreate?

there are enough people in the world

the more people that dont have children the better

sckoarn im really shocked at the prejudices you hold so dear

[carthage]

It's nice to see a bit of debate. I apologize for originally posting this here, it seems to have spawned a bit of non-rpg related dialectic.

Personally, I'm not very interested in anyone's cock but my own, and could give a shit where others end up. I agree with Sammie in that it's actually amusing at times to pick on a homo-phobic person. One of my favorite arguments is that the person is really just upset because they harbor secret gay thoughts of their own, and are ashamed... But thats just me being small, and petty.

I thought it interesting to see a big MMO actually picking on a minority group. I agree that sexual orientation shouldn't come into play in a game, but the majority of the million+ players involved in these types of games happen to be in the 14-20 year old range, and like it or not the term "gay" is a big part of the common vernacular of that group. So, some discussion is bound to erupt.
I've never understood why it's okay for a member of an oppressive group to use a term, and it be entirely wrong for a member of the oppressing group to use the same term.
In example, brothers of other colors are generally offended when the term "nigger" is applied to them, but it is often used as a greeting between two black males, and actually it's usually "my nigger", which I feel should be more offensive somehow. Well, I think it's actually "nigga", but you see my point.
It seems also to apply to the homosexual community.
Pluralism and tolerance are part of what makes the Unites States such a cool country and with all of it's shortcomings, still a great place to be. It's a place where we can have very different opinions, and somehow support those different opinions by upholding our basic freedoms.
If we all thought the same way, it wouldn't matter whom we elected, now would it?
I understand some of the GNG members have actually served to protect those basic and unalienable rights, you guys rock.
I have great respect for other peoples opinions, and would be very upset if everyone thought the same as I.

Really, I was just looking for an opportunity to use the term "gay-mer".
Heh heh, gaymer.

Emo is gay.

[McTucket]

i love bizzle like my straight friends. just so you know.


i know he was definitely offended by a few peoples posts, and for that im sorry bro, but people are allowed to speak their opinions, and being gay is definitely one of those subjects that not all people agree on.


and sammie, our primary job as parents/adults are to raise children and teach them right from wrong, etc.

i know we've gone over this awhile back. nothings changed.

i think if you dont have a child of your own, you are missing out.

of course, there is a right time and place for this.

[Sammie]

I'm not advocating not using terms like niggers or gays
people use them all the time and its an absurd belief that only the people who are black/gay whatever can use them and others can not
thats just stupid
i dont think bizzle is thin skinned and im sure he takes much of this in jest but some statements are over the line such "so fuck off", and that you dont have any respect for a person b/c they suck dick or whatever.

its lame

everyone has a right to their opinion, sure

but come on............

[ioScream]

wow
double wow

true
DOUBLE TRUE

[Sammie]

omg

everyone is really showing their true colors

interesting

[McTucket]

but come on............


cum on what?


omg everyone is showing their true colors... i think he was for bizzle, juggs mcgee....

[carthage]

Anyone here ever read any Shan Yu?

He said... "Live with a man forty years. Share his house, his meals, speak on every subject. Then tie him up and hold him over the volcano's edge, and on that day, you will finally meet the man."

Sadistic crap legitimized by florid prose.

Tell me you're not a fan.

[Thunder]

beliefs are relative. (truths are not relative)

Are you Omnipitent?

Believes are fine but when you make a judgement about another person b/c of your beliefs you are saying you hold the great power of truth while anothers persons beliefs are inferior to your own.
It seems a bit pompous esp about matters that dont even concern you or your life style.

who cares who someone else is screwing? its no one's concern but their own. It doesnt require you to condone it. Its really, no one else's business but the people involved.


Its the assertion that you hold some ultimate truth
that kind of confidence is rooted in pride, which i dont think
is a good representative of true christ teachings

so you choose not to be gay. thats fine. but to tell others they are deviant is an display of pride, more than beliefs.

I dont think you have any animocity towards gays. I think I know you better than that but to be annoyed by a generaly oppressed group of individuals speaking out, is still an advocacy for repression.

Gays have had to make a spectacle of themselves to demand the same basic rights that other's have, just like the women's rights movement and the civil rights movement.

Give gays the same basic human rights and i doubt you will have the level of gay pride displays to shock the christian right

they are trying to shock to get a reaction in order to obtain rights that they ought to already have

this so called negative attention is better than no attention at all.

how many people wanted the "negros" to stfu with all their black pride and equal rights preaching??


EVOLVE!!!

**truth is not relative, beliefs are

Sorry for the delay, been busy with family and friends all weekend.

Ironically, you said to "evolve" to a christian. Heh. moving on...

There is no pride at all when I say that I do not condone homosexuality and it is against my beliefs. It says specifically in the bible that God abhors a man laying with another man, or a woman with a woman. Yep, unlike most guys I don't think two women together is hot. I don't think I have an ultimate truth, I believe I have the Truth. Your beliefs may be different and while I may try and change the way you think if you come to me and ask about Christ, I, personally, am not going to shove a bible down your throat.

As for the marches and rallys, I can say I'm a little annoyed. But only because I was stuck in traffic once in Cleveland while waiting for a parade to go by. After I was moving again, not annoyed. Let them march till their feet fall off, I don't care.

[McTucket]

so now we've heard from both opposite sides of the spectrum.

[HHBizzle]

the only thing i have to say about people who bring in the bible is that they should read it in the ORIGINAL language it was WRITTEN in (Hebrew and Aramaic as well as the New Testament in Greek), and then comment on it, otherwise its simply a book of translations; and translations are often mis-translated..just go ahead and look at the 3 or 4 english versiosn and read the verse you are referring to...all 3 translate it differently.A critical examination of the text of the original Hebrew and Greek languages of the Bible is indispensable, for centuries many words were added or omitted.

as for anyone who can state they dont agree with homosexuality but can treat homosexuals like they treat their str8 friends, go to (&^%.

[McTucket]

go to what?

please, since you're directing it towards me, do explain.

[carthage]

go to what?

please, since you're directing it towards me, do explain.

I do believe he' saying to go to perenthasis ampersand to the percent power

[McTucket]

but of course.... silly me./

[carthage]

I'm not saying I understand it...

[3043]

Wow, this is heavy.

Who on earth thinks that AIDS is related to homosexuality? Too much Rush/Sean/Orlly, I think.

First off, AIDS is not contagious. The disease in question is HIV. It becomes AIDS after your immune system is severely damaged.

But HIV didn't originate in Homosexuals either. Gay men were just the first population group to truly suffer from it in large numbers. And bc of the associated promiscuity of gay men it spread fast. But beyond that, the first cases of HIV were not even in gays.

I can't fully address this thread but I'll add shit to the fire cause Im a man and fire is pretty cool.

Wanting to discriminate against homosexuals is a prejudice people apparently want to promote against AT LEAST 10% of the population of the USA. The american way is AGAINST prejudice. The american way is equal rights for all. Anything less is unacceptable.

And as far as citing the bible as some kind of moral guideline. You can't have Christianity lite. If you like what it says about it despising homosexual acts then you should also fulfill some of the other more interesting tennets set down in that book. Picking and choosing which things in the bible to believe in is an affront to god. You gotta swallow it whole. So:

be sure to "not suffer a witch to live" I assume all devout christians will slaughter all and any wiccans they see. It is god's command.

be sure not to commit onanism or masterbate at all. If you do god COMMANDS you to cut off the offending limb. I have seen few single limbed christians.

be sure to "throw off usury and despise all its forms". Which means no mortgages, no credit cards, no car or personal loans. Even more Jesus wants you to not allow these practices. So you can't work for banks etc either. The very presence of this institutions are a affront to the christian god.

I could go on and on but Im not likely to change anyones mind but suffice to say that I have read the bible cover to cover at leastt three times and made a good study of it. Its the wrong liberetto for the opera we call life.

[Sammie]

Thunder your whole arguement goes back to the bible and the bible says a lot of things, like you have no right to judge. (also 3043 made several valid pts. that can not be denied....explained by rationalization but not logically refuted.
his pt is a sound one

perhaps you have not come outright and made as harsh a judegment as some others have

however, you have made a judgement nonetheless

i guess you get annoyed waiting on funeral percessions too?

you should be thankful you are a live and not dead and that it wasnt someone you cared about that passed.

granted im being over the top a bit here, but the rebutable you offerred follows the same self absorbed premise

Oh to be inconvenienced, what a burden you must carry :p



I don't think I have an ultimate truth, I believe I have the Truth.

what's the difference thunder? "The" truth, denotes the ulimate truth

say what you mean and mean what you say

I get the evolution joke but seriously, we have evolved. maybe not from monkeys or some single cell bateria. That i can not confirm nor deny but we do evolve. society is continuously evolving and so is mankind: financially, psychologically and socially.

your move*

[ioScream]

hmm i re-read my last post, and it looksl ike it might have been a bit confusing..

[McTucket]

however, you have made a judgement nonetheless

i guess you get annoyed waiting on funeral percessions too?



what the fuck?


listen=up. we all pretty much know eachother, and eachother's views.


is what we are saying going to do anything, except piss people off?

thunder is definitely not going to change his views, God bless him, and sammie is definintely, definitely not going to change her views(30 too)

lets all hug and shit.

[ioScream]

what the fuck?

lets all hug and shit.

Dont be gay :lol: :lol:

[Sammie]

thunder isnt going to be offended by my words

its an honest open discussion

we are disagreeing and i am just pointing out flaws i see in his reasoning

thunder is a smart guy. im sure he has some feedback

why are people always so concerned about hurting other people's feelings?

buck up camper

[McTucket]

nah, its just we've all had this discussion many a time.

nothings changed.

i know where pretty much everyone who has posted stands for a long time.


if people had open minds, i would care as much. that would be a cool thing.

but we all dont. we say we do, but we dont./

theres no point to this, am i right? yeah i am/.

[Sammie]

of course there is a point. if we continue to have the same argument without resolution, then the dicussion obvioulsy isnt over.

Most of us seems to agree on one thing; not all matters are purly relative
and there are certain truths

discussions like these dont get solved in forums. generations have pondered the same quesitons without resolution. trying to understand truths is the greatest inquiry of all mankind.

are we likely to find the solutions? doubtful but does that make the discussion ultimately fruitless?



the discussion is not in vain, even if it doesnt lead to immediate gratification.

understanding, not a leap of faith, is best way to form beliefs

we should all encourage being questioned on our so called convictions. we should use reason as a means of guidance to allow us to dispell misconceptions and reassure us of our positions that we stand unshaken by

[McTucket]

yeah, whatever, sounds like you put too much thought into that.


i just get tired of the same arguments, no matter the form they're in.


lets just bone instead. all of us. gng orgie. il hate-fuck the libs, and the lib lovers are allowed to trace the veins of my ballsack with their tongue. no biting, or il pulverize your face with my cock print.

[ioScream]

I love these discussions.. they really motivate me to think.. and sitting in my room, which has been my pasttime for the last month, doesnt stimulate me.. i dont get offended, and im openminded enough to respect the opinions of others.. that's all that can asked.. i think it's very important to discuss these things.. like sammie said..

we should all encourage being questioned on our so called convictions.

and i love it.

[Animal]

What I don't understand is why anyone feels they have the right to judge anyone based on their sexuality, race, ethnicity, religious beliefs, etc etc. I have always reserved judgement of people until I have had personal contact with that person. I then decide what I think of that person based on their actions and responses to me. I couldn't care less if this person was gay, black, indian, chinese, jewish, muslim, a thief or a nazi.

In short, people need to live and let live.

I also love the people who are so quick to say that they don't "condone" or "agree" with homosexuality. I love these people so much because of the irony of those statements. 60 years ago 98% of the white population of this country would have said, "I don't "condone" or "agree" with blacks mixing in with whites". Maybe some of you still feel that way, I dont know.

Black people are exactly that, PEOPLE. Guess what, homosexuals are PEOPLE too. Homosexuals cant help being homosexual anymore than black people can help being black. So now this country is going through the same kind of discrimination and bigotry except now the target is homosexuals instead of blacks.

Maybe all you people who voice your opinions so loudly against homosexuals should do something more productive. Maybe you can start by turning your attention to the real problems of society like drug abuse, rape, murder, government corruption, etc.

I cant believe someone actually had the cajones to bring in the HIV thing and just outright blame that on homosexuals along with the downfall of the west and who the hell knows what else. I dont know about you guys but every gay person that I know makes excellent money, contributes to society in a meaningful way and, GUESS WHAT, they are MONOGAMOUS!

Lastly, I am shocked by all the comments from a lot of you guys about not agreeing to or condoning homosexuality. It's not really something for you to condone or agree with, at least not anymore than you can condone or agree with gravity. I think those of you who dont agree with or condone homosexuality but "have friends that are gay" or whatever are full of shit. Sexuality is such an integral part of a person that I just don't see how you can "disagree" with it and still be their friend.

[Sammie]

AR !! :D

<3


well said

[McTucket]

actually, im the only person who said that i have gay friends, even though i dont condone it. call me full of shit again, i like it.


its possible.

i very much disagree with it.

they're still my friends.


how many different fucking ways do you want me to spell it out for you people.



not every gay person i know makes excellent money, nor are they monogamous.

once again, i stated this in the beginning of this thread.... i cant say how gay people know they're gay whether its being born that way, or they choose to live the alternative lifestyle, confused.... whatever.i dont think its smart to state that you know why.

i agree with the hiv nonsense. perhaps, if anything, it brought the hiv/aids battle to the forefront. gay people did not create aids, or whatever.

as for the statement of "homosexuality being the downfall of the west"


it may be true. as absurd as it sounds, it may be true. its an opinion, and it hasnt happened yet.

[ioScream]

The downfall of any civilization is ignorance.. at least history tells me so.. but maybe i misinterpeted the winner's point of view........ as we know the winner writes history - as mark and nick pointed out so well at my last sammie and mark visit.

Having gay friends and not agreeing with it is a bit of a contridiction.. it's a hard disposition, and i dont know how you manage it.

I'm glad to see everyone is putting forth their honest opinions.. i fucking love these threads..

[Sammie]

personally i think the downfall of society thoughtout history has been pride displayed in arrogance, repression and abuse of powers (usually by means of violence)...all rooted, as Io stated, in ignorance

but hey, that's just an opinion based on my observation

[Animal]

i very much disagree with it.
We have already established your "disagreement" with homosexuality. I still cant understand how you can disagree with it so much yet remain friends with a homosexual. Why is it that you disagree with it? Do you just feel its wrong? Because there MIGHT be some reference to homosexuals in the bible? I'm just curious as to why you disagree with the concept of homosexuality.

how many different fucking ways do you want me to spell it out for you people.
I have read your posts about 7 times and I still cant figure out what you are talking about here.

not every gay person i know makes excellent money, nor are they monogamous.
Fair enough.

once again, i stated this in the beginning of this thread.... i cant say how gay people know they're gay whether its being born that way, or they choose to live the alternative lifestyle, confused.... whatever.i dont think its smart to state that you know why.
I never stated to know why, exactly, gay people are gay. However, it is of my opinion that people are "just" gay. I dont think anyone actually "chooses" to be gay. At least I cant imagine forcing myself with another man "just because". Regardless, even if someone WANTED To be gay and "just became" gay, what difference does that make? It still doesnt change the fact that they are gay.

i agree with the hiv nonsense. perhaps, if anything, it brought the hiv/aids battle to the forefront. gay people did not create aids, or whatever.
I doubt you or anyone else here, including me, is qualified to talk about the origins of HIV. Straight people spread the virus just the same as gay people. I think the only thing we can all agree on here is that you cannot place the blame for HIV in its entirety on either homos or heteros.

as for the statement of "homosexuality being the downfall of the west"

it may be true. as absurd as it sounds, it may be true. its an opinion, and it hasnt happened yet.
It is an opinion. And even if the downfall of the West does come around, I seriously doubt it will be directly linked to "homosexuals". Are you guys seriously being honest about this "downfall of the West"? I just cant help but laugh everytime I think that the downfall of anything other than population density can be caused by people just because they are homosexual! LOL

[Sammie]

homosexuality is not the downfall of the west

the statement is absurd

its not even arguable. its laughable and pathetically short sited

funny how its so hard to see the nose right on your face.

mankind is the downfall of man

we are only that which we create

we have endless possiblities for either "good" or "evil"

and we choose chaos, violence and alienation over any other instincts. we find justifications for them everyday. we protect them as if they were sacred rights to be at worst enouraged and at best easily accepted

Of course we have an inherient tendancy for those characteristics but they are certainly not our only inherent traits.
we choose. we always choose. therefore the responsiblity always stops on us.

blame a god for original sin,
blame man's base animal instincts of greed and power for wars
etc
but never forget that you are untimately given free will and the choice has always been ours to make
how do we choose to use it?
what do we choose to value? not in words, but in actions
intentions are for shit
reality is action
responsiblity is the result of cause and affect



end rant momentarily**

[ioScream]

I always look forward to the sammie rant... my respect for you and mark has grown soo much after meeting you guys... you fuckers live like i would i love to.. admiration is at a peek.

And yes, at its very root, mankind's downfall is, of course, mankind.. unless we get a nice astroid... which im praying for.. i dont want to see mankind destroy itself.. i have a lot of FAITH in the mankind to come together and put things like this in the background, because that's where it belongs.. ultimately we all want to survive, and the only way that is going to work is if we can work together... settle differences and leave them as that.. differences.. its the spice of life... and we need it to be individual. I love differing opinions, but i hate it when those opinions affect me personally, or through someone i care about, which i take personal.

[3043]

He said, "cock print". hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :biggrin: :lol: :biggrin: :lol: :lol: :lol: :biggrin: :lol: :biggrin: :lol: :biggrin: :lol: :biggrin: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ioScream]

who said "cock print"?? is that like "pecker trail"??

[3043]

As a tree hugging liberal Im down with some hugging.

[3043]

yeah, whatever, sounds like you put too much thought into that.


i just get tired of the same arguments, no matter the form they're in.


lets just bone instead. all of us. gng orgie. il hate-fuck the libs, and the lib lovers are allowed to trace the veins of my ballsack with their tongue. no biting, or il pulverize your face with my cock print.


so spaketh McTucket

[ioScream]

Always count on 30 for some unrelated, yet, APPEALING bullshit.. "lets hugs it out bitch" -- Entourage

**Hugs 30, then steals his blunt**

[HHBizzle]

Wow, this is heavy.

Who on earth thinks that AIDS is related to homosexuality? Too much Rush/Sean/Orlly, I think.

First off, AIDS is not contagious. The disease in question is HIV. It becomes AIDS after your immune system is severely damaged.

But HIV didn't originate in Homosexuals either. Gay men were just the first population group to truly suffer from it in large numbers. And bc of the associated promiscuity of gay men it spread fast. But beyond that, the first cases of HIV were not even in gays.

I can't fully address this thread but I'll add shit to the fire cause Im a man and fire is pretty cool.

Wanting to discriminate against homosexuals is a prejudice people apparently want to promote against AT LEAST 10% of the population of the USA. The american way is AGAINST prejudice. The american way is equal rights for all. Anything less is unacceptable.

And as far as citing the bible as some kind of moral guideline. You can't have Christianity lite. If you like what it says about it despising homosexual acts then you should also fulfill some of the other more interesting tennets set down in that book. Picking and choosing which things in the bible to believe in is an affront to god. You gotta swallow it whole. So:

be sure to "not suffer a witch to live" I assume all devout christians will slaughter all and any wiccans they see. It is god's command.

be sure not to commit onanism or masterbate at all. If you do god COMMANDS you to cut off the offending limb. I have seen few single limbed christians.

be sure to "throw off usury and despise all its forms". Which means no mortgages, no credit cards, no car or personal loans. Even more Jesus wants you to not allow these practices. So you can't work for banks etc either. The very presence of this institutions are a affront to the christian god.

I could go on and on but Im not likely to change anyones mind but suffice to say that I have read the bible cover to cover at leastt three times and made a good study of it. Its the wrong liberetto for the opera we call life.

bingo

[McTucket]

il bingo your face.


we're done here.

[ioScream]

il bingo your face.


we're done here.


Oh, is that right? Everyone heard our master speak.. must obey.. (^)O_o

:rolleyes: :lol: :wink:

[Sammie]

il bingo your face.


we're done here.

only b/c tucky has lost the ablility to defend himself and his absurd beliefs (actually I dont even think they are really his beliefs)

Maybe if we were real friends, we would help him remove the implant from his head??



hee hee

btw: thanks IO :D

[McTucket]

haha.


maybe if you were real friends, you'd hook me up with some cash for the private server.

except, of course, the people who already did.

[McTucket]

ok ok heres my stance on the gay issue. since i have to defend myself when im basically one fo the few who will take a stance....I believe homosexuality and yes even bisexuality.... is a sin. I also believe a person makes a choice to become a homosexual or bisexual. yes, thats my opinion I dont believe someone can be born homosexual or bisexual and i havent seen any studies to prove otherwise.

the studies that say gayness is what people are born with have been funded by homsexual advocacy groups./


like i said earlier, this is my opinion, and i believe in God... and his creation of Eve for Adam (not Steve) for companionship and sexual desire says everything.

if you know the Bible, you'll understand where im coming from.

before sin was created with the slaying Abel, there was no homosexuality. after that had occured, adultury, rape, incest, and homosexuality eventually happened.

Why do so many people insist that they were born homosexuals? There are times in our lives when shit happens to us that is out of our control. how we deal with this shit will decide our future... and how we react to other situations. Young dudes sometimes haver homosexual feelings because their fathers ignored them, which end up driving them to side with their mothers ... eventually perhaps sharing their mothers' sexual desires. Some people deal with gay feelings because they were molested as children, which screws with their heads.

my point (again, just an opinion) is that many people feel they are homosexuals because their desires lean in that direction. These feelings may be reinforced by a childhood experience, unkind comments from a kid at school, or by parental rejection. But it does not mean that the person was born a homosexual - any more than people are born killers, liars, etc.

[McTucket]

with that being said, even though i dont agree with homosexuality, i still believe in treating my gay friends with respect, just like i treat all my other friends. this is where the bible and i separate. in case you havent noticed, in the past i have expressed my views about how i believe in the bible, but you have also noticed that i curse, i smoke, i drink, i have premarital sex, etc.

this is my life.

i believe in what i believe is true.

i have my flaws, we all do.

[Animal]

I have concluded that the vast majority of the people who dont "agree" with homosexuality are holy crusaders. I also find it ironic that people like Tucket can piss all over everything the bible says (I quote, "i believe in the bible, but you have also noticed that i curse, i smoke, i drink, i have premarital sex, etc") except when its convenient for them to do so.

You need to get on one side of the fence or the other. I am so tired of people picking and choosing what they agree with from the bible. You either agree with everything and follow in Christs' path or you dont. Why is it that premarital sex is ok but being homosexual is not even though they are both not (allegedly) approved by the Bible?

If you dont like gay people, thats fine. Just say it. Dont say you disagree with homosexuality because the Bible says its a sin. You are a liar if you say that because you obviously dont wholly believe in the Bible.

[McTucket]

ok, well i do what i want to do.

i already fucking stated that.

i just have guidelines i fuckin follow.

fuckin sue me.


nice to see you're back. go fuck yourself.

[Animal]

Then say that and dont bring some irrelevant text (the Bible) into it.

There is no need for you to be so rude either. But hey, thats just you, so whatever. Grow up.

[ioScream]

Now now children relax. I can kind of see where Tucket is coming from. I have a good friend who considers himself Christian. He believes in Christ, and Him dying for his sins, yet he understands the inherent flaws in the bible. He uses the bible for advice, meaning he reads the stories and passages for their symbolism and uses them to help get him through tough times.

Now, with that being said.. I would like to point out this study done by a professor at Boston University of Medicine, not funded by any gay or lesbian groups.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/scotts/bulgarians/nature-nurture/bailey-pillard.html

It's funny what a little research can get you. I found that in less than 30 seconds by googling it.

[ioScream]

Oh yeah, and AMERICA FUCK YEAH>~!#

[McTucket]

the only worthwhile paragraph in that paper was this:


Our own research has shown that male sexual orientation is substantially genetic. Over the last two years, we have studied the rates of homosexuality in identical and non-identical twin brothers of gay men, as well as adoptive brothers of gay men. Fifty-two percent of the identical twin brothers were gay, as against 22 percent of non-identical twins and 11 percent of the adoptive, genetically unrelated brothers.


being gay is genetic? thats the most obsurd thing ive ever heard. not to mention, they didnt back it up with any proof whatsoever. they stated what they thought was a fact. they did not proove anything.

[ioScream]

It's as absurd as being born with a disposition to alcoholism...

[McTucket]

you;re absolutely right.


you arent born with anything like that.

when you grow and develop, you find out your family has a problem with addiction, such as mine. you let it fester and sit in the back of your mind. the idea grows on you. you let it become you. trust me. i would know.

[ioScream]

Well, it is.. that's why alcoholism seems to run in families.. do I have to do some research for you on that too? There are obviously outside factors that can contribute to that as well, but the disposition is there.

[McTucket]

anyway....

[ioScream]

It's more on the lines of addiction.. but that was just an example. What's with the anyways?

[HHBizzle]

Okay, i dont want to make this a pro-gay everyone must agree with homosexuality thread cause not everyone will.

But

ignorance is bliss

A: On the idea of wether or not people choose to be a homosexual; i find it pretty hard for people to choose a way of life where, in my case, i cannot, for example, walk down the street holding the hand of the person I love or kissing them even on the cheek in public out of fear from societal disapproval. To worry about my parents reactions, the fear of them never wanting to see me again, the fear of bringing my loved one to a public function; yes I would choose to deal with all that.

B: I was never molested, was raised well by BOTH parents, i had no bizarre occurence in the mychild hood that could even remotely be linked to "making me gay." In fact, my childhood was very normal, far more normal than probably 70% of americans.

C: If its an event, tramautic or not, do you think anyone could still "choose" to be gay? At any given point in time? If I can choose to be gay, can i choose to be un-GAY? Many probably wish they could......

or think about it this way..think about having sex with a man right now? you know how horrid and disgusting that is for you to even think about that act? why is that so? and why are the feelings you have for that the same for me except i have them when i think about a woman? thats the best choice of all

[ioScream]

About fucking time you posted.

[McTucket]

It's more on the lines of addiction.. but that was just an example. What's with the anyways?


nah joe, i appreciate your posts...


whered the alcoholism come from anyways... i thought things were going well with our posts and such.

[ioScream]

i was just using it as an example of things that are genetic.. and that i think it is very possible, and likely that homosexuality is genetic.. i mean you have a genetic disposition to want to fucking women, right? why not the other way around.. i dont know.. im not a scientist..

[McTucket]

but homosexuality isnt a genetic thing.


it cant be.

[ioScream]

okay.. but i think it's probably not chosen either... how can you fake being gay? havent you watched Drawn Together??? "Gay Married for the insurance"

[McTucket]

fake being gay?

[Sammie]

We need to remove the implant FAST. I think it is rotting away his brain!!

[McTucket]

im sorry if you disagree, but i believe that my heart, as well as my intelligence, has led me on the right path.

[3043]

I like Tuckets post. While I don't agree with it - it is well thought out and free of prejudice. In america, we can have different opinions and still get along. It's what makes this a great place to live.

Opinions can be a curse or a blessing and as long you put some serious and honest thought into one I will respect it. Thus I respect Chubbs' opinion without agreeing with it or even wanting to change it.

AR, the thing about excepting the bible wholesale is like this: yes you should do it but as long as you are honest to yourself about it and do the "best you can" with the beliefs in there that's fine. The problem exists with the outward hypocrisy and that is what bugs me. A preacher of Jesus calling for someone's murder is insufferable. Calling on the holy book as anything more than a personal guideline is hypocritical if you don't at least TRY to follow the core of what it means to be a worshipper of the Christ.

[Sckoarn]

Ok,

I was a little wrong about the AIDS point, but Gayism was a contributing factor. I read this, and it seems non-bias

http://www.avert.org/origins.htm

I feel that the spread would not have been so large scale if gayism was not so accepted. Just a product of the times.

I am not a Homaphobe, I just do not think it is right and am not afraid to state my opinion. God has nothing to do with it for me.

Im my family there are a couple Gay people, and they bring thier partners to our family functions. They seem to fit in just like any of the other family members. One of them was the MC for our event, which was great cause they are great at entertaining. But this is it for me, why would anyone at the end of a function, have to thank everyone there for accepting and treating thier parter in an accepting and nice manner? Do straight MC's thank the gathering for accepting his wife? That just seems a little fucked up to me. Other than that I have no problems with the individuals.

Also about feelings, NO ONE MAKES you FEEL, only you can do that.

As for the topic of this thread, Blizzard is right, the terms of use are specific enough to rule in thier favor.

I am glad we can just state our views on this and not let ourself get upset over comments made.

[Animal]

As for the topic of this thread, Blizzard is right, the terms of use are specific enough to rule in thier favor.

Thats a crock of shit. Recruiting for a homo guild is no different than recruiting for an adult only guild. Blizzards TOS says something to the effect of harassment. Shouting, "Recruiting for gay, bi, lesbian, transgendered guild!!!" in a zone is no different than shouting "Now recruiting players 21+ for adult only guild".

I just dont see how that is harassment, maybe you can explain it to me. Walking up to a female night elf and saying "Hi baby, you look mad sexy in those uber pants of fucking +4. Do you mind if I stick my huge gnome cock right in your ass? Afterwards, I can stick my staff of shit right up that tight cunt of yours!". Now THAT is harassment.

[zero]

You also have to understand that the Blizzard guys that run WOW are a bunch of Nazis. If you have a nick they don't approve of they change it for you, without warning, and without any recourse. They ban people for having certain processes running on their machines, albeit sometimes justified, but still they give no second chances. As wrong as it is it's not surprising coming from Blizzard.

[Sckoarn]

If you have the game, Re-Read the terms. Very plane english.

Harrasment is only ONE of the issues.

[Animal]

Why dont you point out exactly which rule is being violated by recruiting for a homo guild. The only policy I can find on Blizzards site (http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowgm/?id=agm01712p) is under "Harassment" sub-heading "Sexual Orientation" and it states:

"Insultingly refers to any aspect of sexual orientation pertaining to themselves or other players"

Does that say insultingly? I believe it does. Is recruiting for a homo guild insulting? It might be to some but it holds no more insult than recruiting for an adult only guild.

[zero]

If you read the original post I think some of those people got it right. The real reason they did it was a matter of CYA. They figure if they let this group do it, then they'll have to let KKK members do it, other racist groups, etc. Despite the fact most would view those sorts of groups as offensive in their ownright, it keeps Blizzard from showing favortism to one group verses another. They have several million customers to keep happy so they're just playing it as safe as possible.

[Animal]

If people want to recruit only white or black members, they should be able to do that too. As long as you arent saying something stupid like "no niggers allowed" or "no crackers allowed" I dont see what the problem is. If I saw someone shouting in a zone "Now recruiting white people for XXX guild", I would think they are racist low lifes but thats not harassment.

I will acknowledge that most of the population is retarded when it comes to issues like this and thats probably why Blizzard does not want to be the one to set a precedent. However, I would wager that, because of the type of people that probably play WoW, they are alienating more subscribers by not allowing "diverse guild" recruiting.

I am not saying that most WoW subscribers are homosexuals rather I am saying that most probably dont really care homos recruiting in a zone.

Of course this is mostly my opinion and speculation.

[sylverarrow]

I will acknowledge that most of the population is retarded when it comes to issues like this and thats probably why Blizzard does not want to be the one to set a precedent.
Covering their own asses because most of the population is narrow minded and retarded.. =P

[Sckoarn]

The problem with the statement:
"Insultingly refers to any aspect of sexual orientation pertaining to themselves or other players"

is that you can not say what will insult me. Therefore Best to keep your mouth shut and say nothing. This is just like in the work place with femnists, for looking at them in a way that they may find insulting???? OMG that is so subjective.

So, Many players may be instulted by such advertizing for members for a Gay guild. And it is their RIGHT to be insulted, and if you are insulting them you are outside the right. The fact that many people find sex or any mention of it or inuendo of it, insulting. So best to say nothing .... Like I should have when I first saw this post.

We live in a new Hyper sencitive time, where those that could and are offended have the power to screw over those that offend. When in fact they should just get a thicker hide, and relax some.

[Animal]

I agree with you Skoarn and I was wondering when someone was going to bring up the "subjectivity" of an "insult".

I think an insult needs to be directed at someone in order for it to qualify as an insult. For example, if I say "Fuck you" thats directed at you and, therefore, it is an insult. If I am in a crowd and say "What the fuck was that" and you overheard me, thats too bad. You might find it offensive, but I was not insulting you.

And it is their RIGHT to be insulted, and if you are insulting them you are outside the right.
I know you are in Canada but what about freedom of speech?

At any rate, if nothing else, it appears that we are at least in agreement that people should just mind their own business. If someone is recruiting gay people and you are not gay move along as it doesnt concern you.

[McTucket]

If you read the original post I think some of those people got it right. The real reason they did it was a matter of CYA. They figure if they let this group do it, then they'll have to let KKK members do it, other racist groups, etc. Despite the fact most would view those sorts of groups as offensive in their ownright, it keeps Blizzard from showing favortism to one group verses another. They have several million customers to keep happy so they're just playing it as safe as possible.


i agree with this statement.