The Da Vinci Code

[McTucket]

i read the book when it first came out.. found it fascinating... hehe its still #1 on the ny top sellers list, goin strong for like 3 years... anyways, i forgot what it was about so im currently reading it again... figured id brush up before tom hanks tries, but destroys the story in a cinematic feature. i always wanted to include cinematic feature./ cool.


anyways, what i propose to you guys is an open discussion about the books ideals and contents.

before i go farther, is there anyone who hasnt read the book?


well thats your own fault, its been out for half of grobers life....

While the ABC News feature focused on Dan Brown's (the author) fascination with an alleged marriage between Jesus and Mary Magdalene, The Da Vinci Code contains many more (equally dubious) claims about Christianity's historic origins and theological development. The central claim Brown's novel makes about Christianity is that "almost everything our fathers taught us about Christ is false." Why? Because of a single meeting of bishops in 325, at the city of Nicea in modern-day Turkey. There, argues Brown, church leaders who wanted to consolidate their power base (he calls this, anachronistically, "the Vatican" or "the Roman Catholic church") created a divine Christ and an infallible Scripture—both of them novelties that had never before existed among Christians.

With the Bible playing a central role in Christianity, the question of Scripture's historic validity bears tremendous implications. Brown claims that Constantine commissioned and bankrolled a staff to manipulate existing texts and thereby divinize the human Christ.


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early Christianity entailed "the cult of the Great Mother"
Mary Magdalene represented the feminine cult and the Holy Grail of traditional lore
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she was also Jesus' wife and the mother of his children
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Magdalene's womb, carrying Jesus offspring, was the legendary Holy Grail (as seen in Da Vinci's encoded paining, The Last Supper)
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Jesus was not seen as divine (God) by His followers until Emperor Constantine declared him so for his own purposes
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The Nicean Council of the 3rd Century was the context for Constantine's power grab and the relationship of Magdalene as paramour of Christ was quashed there
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"Mary Magdalene's remains and the secret documents that tell the real story were found on the Temple Mount when Jerusalem was conquered in the First Crusade.”
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Brown sees a connection between the Nag Hammadi documents (a.k.a., Gnostic Gospels) discovered in 1945 and this storyline
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The "truth" about Christ and Mary Magdalene has been kept alive by a secret society named the Priory of Sion that was lead by great minds like Da Vinci



just a few things that the book says happens. i know its fiction, but theres been talk, and even an abc special on whether or not there is some truth in this.

any comments>?

[3043]

The validity of bible stories is of great interest to me. I don't have time to fully comment this morning but I will try to later. Suffice to say there is more than a grain of truth in Brown's fiction. All I will say is this:

Book of Mary Magdalene

Book of Mary, Mother of Jesus.


At least one of them almost certainly existed or exists. And remember, whatever variety of christianity you favor, they all were born out of Catholicism.

Thou shall not kill. (no exceptions)

[McTucket]

oh rog, catholicism was definitely the first variant of christianity.

[Phenix]

BAH! down with organized religion!

ok im done

[Jethro]

Thou shall not kill is not correct. The true translation from the ancient text is Thou shall not Murder. Changing one word makes a very big difference in what the commandment means.

[McTucket]

what is the exact definition of murder?

[Jethro]

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
2. Slang. Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous: The rush hour traffic is murder.
3. A flock of crows.

[McTucket]

so what would constitute killing, and be okay, in God's eyes?

[3043]

Is that definition from the judeo-christian god or from websters dictionary?


And, not to hijack the thread but if you are gonna quibble over one word consider this:

The 10 commandments occur in two parts of the bible and under different circumstances. The circumstances contradict each other.

In one case, Deuteronomy I think, the ascribe the writing of the big 10 to the finger or hand of God. In the other case, Exodus, they say Moses wrote them down. There is much debate over this and bible is not only unclear but contradictory.


Either way they only became "10" in relatively recent times. Originally they were part of over 400 Mosiac (of Moses) laws with specific ascribed penalties for each.

Even odder there weren't even originally ten straightforward statements. There were 17 and the translations go a little like this, the first is a translation of the Exodus version of events, the second from Deuteronomy):

1. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

1. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

2. You shall have no other gods before me.

2. You shall have no other gods before me.

3. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

3. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

4. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand [generations] of those who love me and keep my commandments.

4. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand [generations] of those who love me and keep my commandments.


5. You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

5. You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.


6. Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.

6. Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you.

7. Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

7. Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

8. but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.

8. but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do.


9. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

9. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

10. Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

10. Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

11. You shall not murder.

11. You shall not murder.

12. You shall not commit adultery.

12. You shall not commit adultery.

13. You shall not steal.

13. You shall not steal.

14. You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

14. You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

15. You shall not covet your neighbor's house.

15. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.

16. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife,

16. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor's house or land,

17. or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

17. his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.


Notice the wording nor the order is the identical. There are no instructions in the Bible on how we are to combine and group these 17 statements so we end up with ten commandments. Yet, of course, man has decided to this anyway.

This presents an immediate problem -- which reading should be used, the one in Exodus or the one in Deuteronomy, and how to combine and group the 17 statements so we arrive at 10 commandments?

The answer is no one agrees. The Catholics, the Protestants, and the Jews all have their own way of combining and grouping the 17 statements, each arriving at their own distinctly different version of the Ten Commandments.
More complicating is that each subsequent variety of Christianity has tweaked things themselves. The mess gets messier.


This is just one TINY example of the problems encountered when a serious look at the bible is made.

[McTucket]

continue on with my topic.

[3043]

Haha, I'm hijacking this thread.


Take this thread to Cooba, bietch!!

[Jethro]

Killing to protect yourself or another is justified. Killing just to kill aka murder is not.

[Maull]

im with Phenix

[3043]

Killing to protect yourself or another is justified. Killing just to kill aka murder is not.


Just curious and I'm not being antagonistic but where did you get this definition? I don't recall reading it in the bible (Gideons) but it has been about 9 years since I last read that tome cover to cover.

[Johnnie Walker]

I loved the book, and wanted to write down a lot of the things you did Tuck hah. One thing that snagged my attention is the statement (which i do believe is actually true) that the christian church did some mud-slinging to convert many icons from paganism, at the time the main competition to christianity, into the "evil" of christian believes. Such as the traits of the pagan god of fertility (goat) into the devil. There were a couple other things that I really wish I wrote down as I was reading but I can't remember for the life of me. It just makes the church seem not so holy as thought, it's interesting to question the world around you rather then follow along.

One of my friend's parent's were lecturing me one night about how the author had stated he made the book for the money and didn't believe in what he said to be true. But I am really not sure about that, is that true?

[McTucket]

i think it really fucking sucks, because none of us have any clue what the truth is. we werent alive during that time period, and we dont know what is right.

[Hae-Yu]

While this is a bit off topic, the Da Vinci Code is a plagiarized work. I remember reading a book in the late 80's that had the same plot lines - everything. When Da Vinci Code came out and people told me about it, I was thinking "Oh I read that years ago." But they would say "no, it only just came out." The book I read was just pulp trash to kill a cross-country move and I haven't been able to find it since.

Exact same everything - Jesus and Mary Magdalene, secret Catholic order killing everyone, hidden mysteries to the early church, Rome, France, blah blah.

As far as the book's assertions and plotlines, IT'S FICTION. Why discuss it as if it has any bearing on the faith?

As far as books being rewritten, you have too many early church fathers who were around before Constantine and there's too much documentation. There are too many copies of the epistles, too many quotes from epistles, etc. running around from before Constantine. They would all have had to have been rewritten.

As far as the 10 commandments, the reason they are called "10" is because the Bible itself calls them 10. Exodus 34:28, Deuteronomy 4:13 and Deuteronomy 10:4 - the "10 words" means the 10 commandments. There are over 600 Old Testament Commandments if you want to get technical.

As far as why denominations group them differently, it's part of religion. There is no inherent fallacy in the words, it has to do with your theology. Different people interpret things different ways. But in the long run, when you do see the groupings, they really don't contradict each other and the "whole picture" you get from each isn't fundamentally different.

If you ask a Catholic and a mainstream Protestant to define "grace" which is one of the foundations of Christianity, they will say almost all the same words and quote almost all the same verses, but the meaning and therefore how it defines your faith and your view of God is completely at odds with each denomination. It took a while, but I figured it out only recently.

As far as what Jethro says, every major denomination agrees, but even "murder" isn't quite accurate because you aren't allowed to cause death by negligence.

[zero]

i think it really fucking sucks, because none of us have any clue what the truth is. we werent alive during that time period, and we dont know what is right.
May I be so bold as to ask, does it really matter? Does it truly and honestly affect your present, immediate life, whether anything presented in the Da Vinci Code, the Bible, or any other text for that matter is accurately and factually correct?

The only truth is, the victor writes history, so at least in part, the absolute truth is never written, and only known by those direcly involved.

[McTucket]

yeai think it matters...

it would sway the way billions of people think... could start world wars, etc./

[Jethro]

Now we are back to faith.

[McTucket]

roger that.