I installed Vista Ultimate, here is my review and lessons learned

[devil_dog]

OK, as some of you know already, I installed Vista Ultimate on my gaming computer. Lets do a quick recap on my setup before I begin.

HP 16X DVD±R DVD Burner W/ LightScribe Black IDE Model DVD740RI - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827140014

Antec Solution SLK3000-B Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129152

SONY Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Windows 98SE/ ME/ 2000/ XP - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16821103116

Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3300622AS 300GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148110

MSI K8N SLI-F Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16813130527R

Running 2 of these video cards on SLI mode
MSI NX7900GT-T2D256E Geforce 7900GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card With Full Version Game King Kong - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127098

Antec TRUEPOWERII TPII-550 ATX12V 550W Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103931

CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model Twinx2048-3200c2pt - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145575

AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Venice 2000MHz HT Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3800BPBOX - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103531

So, I have plenty of computer to run Vista very well as you can see. I actually attended the Microsoft 2007 Product Release event in Phoenix, Arizona in January. Mostly because the event was held in the Pheonix Convention Center, where I happen to work as a sysadmin. They gave everyone who attended a full copy of Vista Ultimate and Office 2007 Pro. Pretty sweet for just letting them show you a few things, they even provided lunch and two great break snacks. Entire event was free to attend!

I initially installed Vista on my Compaq Evo N610 laptop. Needless to say, it worked, but with a huge performance hit. Not enough processor or RAM, and the video card doesn't support 3D rendering, so some of the cool features weren't available.

On my gaming computer, however, Vista simply owns. Everything opens so much faster, and the animation is amazing. I'll let you read wherever to learn about all of the features, but let me tell you they really stepped up the eyecandy. It looks a lot like Mac OS in the clean appearance and sharp images. One very cool new feature is the Switching Windows. (See the attached printscreen). It allows you to see a large thumbnail of all of the programs you have open, kind of like an Alt+Tab. You can scroll through them with your wheel mouse or with the arrow keys. You can also just click on the thumbnail, no matter where is shows in line, and it will maximize it for you.

So far I've learned that it is difficult to find drivers. I'm not able to run my dual video cards in SLI mode because NVidia hasn't released a driver for Vista that supports SLI mode yet. Most current driver ForceWare available is 100.54, which includes the SLI mode option in the control panel, but when you enable it and restart your computer after being prompted, the setting reverts back to disabled.

Also, I can't find any drivers for my ASUS motherboard, which doesn't impact me too much except that I have to use Windows Update to install a driver for my onboard audio Realtek 97. For some reason, it isn't the right driver even though it comes from MS, so my computer Blue Screens after I restart. My current workaround for this is to start with the Last Known Good Configuration, which reverts me back to my no audio driver installed status. Windows Update again to get it functional, and repeat each time I restart. A big hassle, but it has allowed me to see that the "self healing" function in Vista really does work well. Practically seemless.

Now, some bad news for anyone thinking of getting Vista and using that fancy dancy audio card you bought some time ago. I'll let the article explain, but basically a lot of consumers and manufacturers are pretty mad about this one. http://pc.ign.com/articles/759/759538p1.html

I installed this as a second OS on my rig, so I can still use my XP Pro installation if I end up too irritated with Vista waiting for proper drivers. I did this mostly because I got it for free, and because as a sysadmin it helps me to stay abreast on information in my field of work.

My biggest complaint so far is that everything you know about Windows has changed in a minor or major way in most cases. Managing the OS is nothing like previous versions. Certain things are named differently, and/or located in a completely different location. Some of the traditional shortcuts to certain utilities are no longer there, and you are left to hunt for them. After a bit of playing around, I've started to get the hang of it, and can find most of what I use regularly now very easily.

More to come as I discover more.

dd

[Sammie]

well it looks pretty cool

but not having supported drivers, that a big problem

[Laroacha]

I had some spare cash, so I got Vista Ultimate upgrade. So far, my only angst is driver issues, to be expected. My video card, a middle of the road ATI X1300XT gave me some grief by initially letting the upgrade install the WDDM drivers that come with Vista, but then refusing to let the latest Catalyst 7.1 drivers install. Eventually Vista found some WDDM drivers that supported 3d acceleration, but I still cant get 7.1 to install, no biggy because everything works ok with these drivers for now. I expect future ATI drivers to overcome this. I'm using on board sound, so after hitting Asus's site, I got my sound up to par,,,,,,,,it worked from the get go, but with the new Vista drivers, it sounds a ton better. I've got a device called the ID Vault that is a USB drive that I use to store my website logon's in a encrypted form so that I can use strong passwords without having to remember them, but so far, I haven't been able to get the new "Vista" friendly version to install. As of now, it will take me to the website, but doesn't automatically enter the user name and password like it's suppose to. OK, that pretty much sum's up the negatives I've encountered so far. It's annoying, but nowhere near as annoying as when I upgraded to Windows ME and after doing a simple disk defrag, had that piece of crap completely fuck up my hard drive because I had a certain anti virus utility installed.

OK, on to the positives, #1 in my book is the new sleep mode. It just fucking works, you hit the power button in the start menu, or on your computer itself, and your box turns off, as far as you know. What it really does is go to a low power sleep mode, that takes almost no time to come back on. On previous versions of windows, when I've tryed sleep mode, it was shit and half the time wouldn't come back on or corrupted your hard drive,,,,this one seems dependable, and it's not being used as a option, it's the default method of turning off your computer, to actually "Shut Down" your computer, you have to take extra steps, so that tells you that MS thinks that they got sleep nailed down this time. In sleep now it actually saves to memory and your hard drive, so even if you lose power, it still comes back from where you left off.

I like the new Aero interface, it kinda gimmicky but I think it just looks a ton better. Functionally it means shit, but it has a geeky calming effect on me. It's kinda what has always been available to you by using WindowsBlinds, but it doesn't crash the OS the way WB always did, it's built into the kernel so it works. The Flip and Flip3D thing is cool, but I doubt I will use it much. I like the gadgets on the side, I've got the clock, Calender, Austin, TX temp, and CPU and Memory monitors on the side and I like the way it looks. I'm looking forward to the promise that they will deliver desktops that will have blowing grass, ie, mpeg desktops. As far as memory requirements, at this point I've got a gig of memory and as I write this, I've obviously got the OS running plus a radio station playing in media player and Firefox running and my memory monitor is showing my used memory at 54%. I just ordered a 2 gig, usb drive to try out readyboost, and should have it within a week. I intend to add another gig of memory to my comp, but I want to see what readyboost will do for me before that. By the way, if you want to use readyboost, I've been told that the usb key that Microsoft used when developing it was a 2GB Apacer Handy Steno HT203-2GB 200X Ultra High-Speed USB 2.0 Flash Drive, so that's what I ordered to try it out.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with it so far because it hasn't really fucked anything up and it add's some personality to my boring box,,,,,,,,take from that what you will, but I'll let you know how the readyboost shit works.

[devil_dog]

I'm still messing with my Vista install. I'm still having major issues with NVidia, both video card and motherboard drivers. If someone finds the correct audio drivers for my ASUS motherboard listed in the beginning of this post, please post a link. I really need all of the MB drivers, but will settle for onboard audio for now.

Still using my XP installation until things get better with drivers.

dd

[Laroacha]

Dude, you listed an MSI motherboard,,,,,,,,not ASUS.

MSI K8N SLI-F Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - OEM

And it looks like nvidia has dropped the ball on their chipset drivers as well as their video card drivers. Every other board chipset maker listed on MSI's site has vista drivers listed, ie ATI, Intel, VIA, but,,,,nope, not Nvidia.

[Helstrm]

Be careful with Vista guys. Read the fine print in the agreement. First off you do not own Vista. You ond a license to run Vista. It must check in every 6 months to validate, Microsoft reserves the right to scan your system for unlicensed software and remove it without your permission... ect ect

In fact the addware and spyware removal can also remove software if the think it is harmful even if it is software that you use.

Vista is an attempt at Microsoft taking control of your PC (Big Brother is watching)

I am just going to run XP64 bit I will look for the articles that go into more details.... Oh and What's up everybody.

[sylverarrow]

I didn't hear about scanning and removing anything. But I did here about not owning vista. and the fact you can only transfer it to one other machine and that's it. I believe that would include any major upgrades. I could be wrong tho.

[devil_dog]

Oops, it is an ASUS A8N32 - SLI Deluxe NForce 4 motherboard.

I got my copy of Vista Ultimate from the Microsoft release event. For free. So far I've installed it on two machines without any issues. I also got a full copy of Office 2007 Pro. Pretty cool for just attending an event that was also free.

dd

[Triple_6]

You never technically own any piece of software. Everything is licensed. I don't buy the scanning your machine every 6 months thing either. That would be a huge breach of privacy. Can you give us a source?

[Sammie]

I'm sure if Helstrm said it I'm sure he has reliable data to back it up.
If it wasnt helstrm I think I would still be using my word processor. LOL


Helstrm is not only one of my best friends (family in fact), he is also my own personal IT support help desk.
He can answer any question and fix any problem.
The guy has probably saved me over a billion dollars over the past 10 years.

I just hope I dont get the bill in the mail :lol:

[Laroacha]

agreed triple, people take things they've heard/read third hand and make the worst of them. I remember when XP came out, all the doomsday shit went around about "Activating" it, now we all know that unless you're wholesale bootlegging it, it really has no downside to speak of.

As of right now, the only downside to Vista is spotty driver issues, but they'll be resolved soon I hope. My video card is still running off of the WDDM drivers from the Vista disk because ATI 7.1's are failing to install, and my printer, an aged HP photosmart 1215 doesn't work because HP has no Vista drivers yet. Other than that,,,,,all's sweet with Vista.

[Helstrm]

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/175801
Michael Geist

Vista, the latest version of Microsoft's Windows operating system, makes its long awaited consumer debut tomorrow. The first major upgrade in five years, Vista incorporates a new, sleek look and features a wide array of new functionality, such as better search tools and stronger security.

The early reviews have tended to damn the upgrade with faint praise, however, characterizing it as the best, most secure version of Windows, yet one that contains few, if any, revolutionary features.

While those reviews have focused chiefly on Vista's new functionality, for the past few months the legal and technical communities have dug into Vista's "fine print." Those communities have raised red flags about Vista's legal terms and conditions as well as the technical limitations that have been incorporated into the software at the insistence of the motion picture industry.

The net effect of these concerns may constitute the real Vista revolution as they point to an unprecedented loss of consumer control over their own personal computers. In the name of shielding consumers from computer viruses and protecting copyright owners from potential infringement, Vista seemingly wrestles control of the "user experience" from the user.

Vista's legal fine print includes extensive provisions granting Microsoft the right to regularly check the legitimacy of the software and holds the prospect of deleting certain programs without the user's knowledge. During the installation process, users "activate" Vista by associating it with a particular computer or device and transmitting certain hardware information directly to Microsoft.

Even after installation, the legal agreement grants Microsoft the right to revalidate the software or to require users to reactivate it should they make changes to their computer components. In addition, it sets significant limits on the ability to copy or transfer the software, prohibiting anything more than a single backup copy and setting strict limits on transferring the software to different devices or users.

Vista also incorporates Windows Defender, an anti-virus program that actively scans computers for "spyware, adware, and other potentially unwanted software." The agreement does not define any of these terms, leaving it to Microsoft to determine what constitutes unwanted software.

Once operational, the agreement warns that Windows Defender will, by default, automatically remove software rated "high" or "severe," even though that may result in other software ceasing to work or mistakenly result in the removal of software that is not unwanted.

For greater certainty, the terms and conditions remove any doubt about who is in control by providing that "this agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights." For those users frustrated by the software's limitations, Microsoft cautions that "you may not work around any technical limitations in the software."

Those technical limitations have proven to be even more controversial than the legal ones.

Last December, Peter Gutmann, a computer scientist at the University of Auckland in New Zealand released a paper called "A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection." The paper pieced together the technical fine print behind Vista, unraveling numerous limitations in the new software seemingly installed at the direct request of Hollywood interests.

Guttman focused primarily on the restrictions associated with the ability to play back high-definition content from the next-generation DVDs such as Blu-Ray and HD-DVD (referred to as "premium content").

He noted that Vista intentionally degrades the picture quality of premium content when played on most computer monitors.

Guttman's research suggests that consumers will pay more for less with poorer picture quality yet higher costs since Microsoft needed to obtain licences from third parties in order to access the technology that protects premium content (those licence fees were presumably incorporated into Vista's price).

Moreover, he calculated that the technological controls would require considerable consumption of computing power with the system conducting 30 checks each second to ensure that there are no attacks on the security of the premium content.

Microsoft responded to Guttman's paper earlier this month, maintaining that content owners demanded the premium content restrictions. According to Microsoft, "if the policies [associated with the premium content] required protections that Windows Vista couldn't support, then the content would not be able to play at all on Windows Vista PCs." While that may be true, left unsaid is Microsoft's ability to demand a better deal on behalf of its enormous user base or the prospect that users could opt-out of the technical controls.

When Microsoft introduced Windows 95 more than a decade ago, it adopted the Rolling Stones "Start Me Up" as its theme song. As millions of consumers contemplate the company's latest upgrade, the legal and technological restrictions may leave them singing "You Can't Always Get What You Want."




Here is one reason that I will stay away...
http://www.techweb.com/wire/software/167101037
More big brother actions
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,127719-page,1/article.html

I will give them credit though it seems they will now allow you to transfer to any PC just ike XP

Even as Microsoft announces that it has reconsidered the crippling restrictions on reinstalling its new operating system Vista (the original terms stated that you could only reinstall once before it locked up and died), SecurityFocus's Scott Granneman details more damning restrictions in the Vista license. When you unwrap your copy of Vista, you "agree" not to publish damning information about the OS -- benchmarks, security vulnerabilities -- except under terms dictated by Microsoft (and those terms can change at any time).
This is a piece of software that comes with a gag order.

Granneman covers other ways in which the Vista "agreement" takes away the freedom you'd assume you'd get when you shell out your hard-earned dough for a product. The key here is that Microsoft, and innumerable others, have elevated the user license to a high art. Practically every vendor now believes that it can turn a sale into a "license" just by putting a sticker on the package that says, "by opening this box, you agree."

Real agreements are negotiated. You and I sit down at a table and hammer it out. Real agreements aren't "subject to change without notice." Real agreements don't make you agree not to sue for negligence. Real agreements don't make you agree to treat your property as if it still belonged to the guy who sold it to you.

This is an obscene legal fiction, for if all it takes to form an agreement is to announce that it has been formed, then the very idea of legitimate agreement is dead. How can you have a social contract if the notion of contract has been strangled by innumerable shrinkwraps, clickwraps, and EULAs?

The draconian limitations I've discussed could only be enacted by a monopoly unafraid of alienating its users, as it feels they have no other alternative. Microsoft may yet learn, however, that there are limits to what its users will bear.



This could be the foot hold that Unix needs to get in the game...

[GNG-Victory]

IMO, Microsoft is just covering themselves so when they get sued (like they do almost everyday) they can point back to the EULA. I'm not a legal person at all, but it seems like the more vague they can make their EULA about some of that stuff, the more than can manipulate it in court. I do not know why everyone hates Microsoft for being so pro-DRM. It says clearly in that article that most high-def monitors already comply with the HDCP or whatever the acronym was. Also, Microsoft isn't going to be uninstalling non-licensed software unless it's their own (i.e. office or VS). Just because it says it in the EULA doesn't mean it will actually happen. People made a huge stink with this crap when XP came out, when SP2 came out, and when genuine advantage came out. None of which I have had any problems with (and the majoriy of people except Gen advantage screwing up some people)

I just do not get why people are so mad at a company for trying to make sure that other companies get paid for their work. I know the music industry is already rich and how record sales are up because of napster and limewire, but those of you who say if they took off the DRM you would buy the music are lieing. You dont pay for music because you dont want to pay for the music and you steal it instead. Downloading a song is the same as going into walmart, grabbing a CD, and walking out with it, it just doesn't have the repercusions. Honestly, if you buy all your software and you dont use cracked keys, you dont have anything to worry about anyway. To honestly say that you aren't going to buy an OS because it wont you steal software is just ridiulcous.

O and BTW, if you want to steal vista, there is a really easy way to do it. You get the DVD for someone, or download it from the internet, then you install it without a key with any version. It will say you have 30 days to activate it. Near the end of those 30 days run

"c:\windows\system32\sysprep\sysprep.exe /generalize /oobe"

It will require you to make a new user account, but you can just delete it and your old one will still be there. You have to do it every 30 days, and I'm sure they will patch it eventually, but it works as far as I have tested it. Sysprep is actually used to help deploy an image for enterprise stuff, and the /generalize will reset the activation on the box to make sure that when you put it on a new computer that it will not be unactivated (since vista requires server activation now).

vic

[Helstrm]

I personally don't download music unless it is through iTunes so I don't steal music. All of my software is licensed through a Volume agreement with my employer so that is not an issue for me. My issue is that I do not believe any company has the right to scan my machine and collect information unless I say it is okay. In Vista they only ask you once. When you first load the OS then they can gather info anytime they want. Chances are that this will change soon as people complain but at this time I won't be loading it.

[Sammie]

personal rights? privacy?


who cares?


anyone who disagrees must be some kid ripping music off from the internet.


:rolleyes:

[papa smurf]

personal rights? privacy?


who cares?


anyone who disagrees must be some kid ripping music off from the internet.


:rolleyes: i find that offensive:lol: :biggrin:

[Triple_6]

Thanks for the articles. Very interesting reading.

[Sckoarn]

If it were not for the fact that no one really makes games for Unix/Linix I would not use Microsoft OS.

Everything a person needs to do regular stuff is in the FREE world know as GNU.

If only a couple game makers had the nuts to port thier output to Linix, they may find they would get a following just because.

[Helstrm]

I hope that Vista may give Linux a foot hold. It is a much better OS than MS ever thought it could be. I they ever start making games for it I am making the switch...

[Hae-Yu]

The problem with games on Linux is that you can't make money selling software in that market. You make your money selling services. That would probably work for a MMORPG with a monthly subscription, but most regular games wouldn't recover their development costs.
Everything a person needs to do regular stuff is in the FREE world know as GNU
About 1/3 of my apps like KeyPass, Audacity, Firefox, POPFile, etc are FOSS. They work and do a basic job. But the fact is, most any regular userland app is just flat out 2nd or 3rd-rate. Open Office, the GIMP, Scribus, Gnumeric, Audacity, FFDShow, ... You can get by; they are all useable and do the job but going all FOSS is like rolling a regular desktop back to 1995.

What's worse is they just rip off the major commercial players' version x-2 in a half-ass way. If it wasn't for commercial software, FOSS wouldn't know what to do. If the world were to go FOSS, software advancement would come to a screeching halt. Face it, innovation isn't why we use FOSS. It's because we're cheap bastards tired of shelling out $300 for an app and it is just "good enough." Sure I like Audacity, but that's because I don't want to pay for CoolEdit/ Audition, WaveLab, or SoundForge. People use Linux because they don't want to pay for Windows, Sun Ultras/ Fires running Solaris or a IBM i/p/z series running AIX. It isn't because Linux is anywhere near as good, innovative, capable or reliable. It's because Linux is good enough.

[Laroacha]

About 1/3 of my apps like KeyPass, Audacity, Firefox, POPFile, etc are FOSS. They work and do a basic job. But the fact is, most any regular userland app is just flat out 2nd or 3rd-rate. Open Office, the GIMP, Scribus, Gnumeric, Audacity, FFDShow, ... You can get by; they are all useable and do the job but going all FOSS is like rolling a regular desktop back to 1995.

What's worse is they just rip off the major commercial players' version x-2 in a half-ass way. If it wasn't for commercial software, FOSS wouldn't know what to do. If the world were to go FOSS, software advancement would come to a screeching halt. Face it, innovation isn't why we use FOSS. It's because we're cheap bastards tired of shelling out $300 for an app and it is just "good enough." Sure I like Audacity, but that's because I don't want to pay for CoolEdit/ Audition, WaveLab, or SoundForge. People use Linux because they don't want to pay for Windows, Sun Ultras/ Fires running Solaris or a IBM i/p/z series running AIX. It isn't because Linux is anywhere near as good, innovative, capable or reliable. It's because Linux is good enough.

Good point dude,,,,,,I never really thought about it that way, but you're right on the money.

Getting away from the MS is the devil talk for a min. If you happen to be switching to Vista and want to consolidate your search for drivers,,,,,this site is a handy little motherfucker: http://www.radarsync.com/vista/

enjoy

[devil_dog]

Well, the installation that I put on my laptop of Vista recognized today that I already had it registered on another computer. Weird, because it has been on both computers now for several weeks.

No biggie, it is on the computer that I want it on anyways. If I want to reinstall on another system I'll just use a volume license.

I stay with MS because my job revolves around it. I have to keep up on the latest and greatest MS OS if I want to remain "The Man" at work.

dd

[Laroacha]

One driver problem overcome, Catalyst 7.2 was released today, and I could get this driver package to install unlike 7.1,,,,,,so now I'm just waiting for HP to shit some drivers for my photosmart printer.

[Laroacha]

OK, I received and installed my 2nd gig of RAM last friday, and I can tell you that going from 1 to 2 gig's of RAM makes a buttload of a difference in Vista. Now my original plan was to get my fast usb drive before I installed the 2nd gig of ram and see how ReadyBoost compared to actually adding ram, but since the ram came in 1st I couldn't help myself. Well, I got the USB drive yesterday and installed it as a ReadyBoost drive, and though I haven't noticed the kind of difference that going from 1 gig of ram to 2 made, I was curious because when watching my resource gadget, the usb drive was getting accessed alot even though my memory usage never showed over about 1/2. I decided I needed to know more about how ReadyBoost worked and I found this article which kinda made things make more since.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/02/08/analysis_vista_ready_boost/index.html

Bottom line is I thought Readyboost was a replacement for the swapfile, when in reality, it is a additional source of memory for SuperFetch, which is the program that remembers your most commonly used applications and preloads them into unused system memory. That's actually a pretty useful deal, the more memory you have the more proggys can get preloaded,,,,,,,,,resulting in tons less waiting for your favorite programs to load...... sweet :)